VDSL Survey

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VDSL Survey

Postby John G3WKL on Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:43 pm

Hi, just to make everyone aware there is an RSGB survey, running during September, to collect data on VDSL interference. I know from my time in various RSGB roles that Ofcom always push back when we discussed the issue of VDSL interference that only a 150 or so complaints from Amateurs have been received.

The RSGB survey - open to non-members as well as members - hopes to get a better feel for how many UK Amateur have their noise-floor degraded by VDSL interference. Many may not even be aware that they have VDSL interference, so it is important that the survey is completed by those people just as much as by those who are convinced that they have a VDSL problem.

I've just done the survey, which took about 10 minutes. It doesn't need any special equipment - just a receiver with an S-meter and an aerial. Further information and access to the survey can be found from

http://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/rsgb-not ... erference/

73 John, G3WKL
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby 2E0VZK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:11 pm

I thought it was the powerline networking adaptors which were causing the problem rather than VDSL?
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby M0CEM on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:56 pm

Daniel -

The QRM from VDSL is even worse - it's not notched out on the amateur bands and it sounds like very clean white noise so you might think it's just general background noise. But there's a massive step in the level as you tune through 3750 kHz which is a dead giveaway.

I think it is caused by bad balancing of subscribers' wire connections between the house and the green cabinet. A result of the UK's cheapskate approach to internet - in a supposedly modern first-world country, everyone should be getting FTTP.

Probably curable by wrapping the drop wire several times around a suitable grade of ferrite ring, but may need doing at both ends of the line and you can't get into BT's cabinet...

Nothing will get done about this unless some vital services become affected. A bunch of hobby users have no political clout when faced with a multi-billion pound global industry that can spend unlimited money on lobbyists and lawyers.
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby 2E0VZK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:49 pm

That's interesting, thanks Dave.

And yes I totally agree, there's no excuse for not having FTTP in this day and age at least in all new houses. I'd need to check but I think fibre is actually cheaper than copper these days.
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby M0AFJ on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:52 pm

If anyone wants to hear the racket come round to mine, I'm virtually QRT now on HF. Ofcom say it's not harmful interference, Openreach say it's not their problem...
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby 2E0VZK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:56 pm

Sounds like the exact same situation we had with BT and the powerline adaptors. BT/Openreach denying its their problem and Ofcom saying there's no interference issue.

I'm beginning to wonder what it takes to get Ofcom to do anything these days, perhaps we should all start using massive power amplifiers to compensate for the noise and see if that rattles their cages.
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby M0CEM on Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:01 pm

I'm afraid you, like a lot of people, have this naive old-fashioned idea that Ofcom is there to manage the radio spectrum for the general scientific and public good.

Ofcom was set up for the purpose of facilitating a "market", and maximising economic activity, in use of the radio spectrum.

Other than safety-of-life and the emergency services, anything that doesn't generate some kind of measurable financial profit for market participants (i.e. businesses) has, in their view, zero value. So any time and effort spent by Ofcom on such things counts as a waste of their budget, and is treated by their Government masters as inefficiency.

If VDSL starts wiping out HF reception around the MOD's few remaining HF receiving sites then they might take localised action, but don't expect them to take any general interest in reducing HF spectrum pollution. It's just not in their remit and they have no budget for such work.
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby M0RBD on Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:47 am

We have buried cables in our area... That does help to a certain level.

Also, I noticed that BT/Openreach seems to have done a proper job at our house.

CAT6 style cabling from our socket to the cabinet (on top of my head I believe CAT6 is recommended for VSDL!).

We have some noise, but I think it's either PSUs/computers or led/halogen light bulbs...

Where I lived in Norway earlier, they had to either properly shield/terminate xDSL or use fibre as it would interfere with NATO VLF/HF installations present not too far away.

Also, permission for an huge offshore windfarm was denied for the same reason as above. The VLF/LF/HF interference potential.

It's very much the same rationale in Sweden and rest of Scandinavia.

I'm a bit surprised that there has not been any input from the military, they are not immune to this interference.
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Re: VDSL Survey

Postby g6gei on Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:10 am

I thought I'd take my RSP2 SDR receiver on holiday this year, to Spain. Jeez... you think the UK has problems!
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